From Devastation to Preparedness Floodplain Consultant Del Schwalls helps you Get Ready

February 27, 2024

124. From Devastation to Preparedness Floodplain Consultant Del Schwalls helps you Get Ready

This week we delve into a topic that's often overlooked until disaster strikes: the risk of flooding. With a blend of expert insights and personal experiences, including a firsthand account of Hurricane Michael's impact on his family's home, Floodplain consultant Del Schwalls talks about the importance of preparation and building resilience against floods. From discussing the complexities of floodplain management to the heart-wrenching realities faced by communities post-disaster, this episode is a wake-up call for homeowners. It prompts a crucial question: will you ignore the risk or take proactive steps to protect your home? Join us as we navigate through the tough choices and learn from the past to build a safer future. 

Here’s how you can follow or reach Del Schwalls:

Website: https://www.schwallsconsulting.com 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dschwalls 

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Here's the link to the trailer for the documentary film I'm making: Built to Last: Buyer Beware.

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Transcript

George Siegal: 0:00

Today we're tackling a topic that many of us might not think about until it's too late the risk of flooding. It's a common threat and it's important to talk about not just the dangers, but also the solutions. Have you ever considered how you would protect your home from rising waters? Today we're going deep into what it means to be prepared. We'll discuss how taking action now can save a lot of heartache and loss in the future.

George Siegal: 0:25

My guest is Del Schwalls, a seasoned flood plane management consultant from Florida. In addition to years of expertise, Del also has a very personal experience. His family's home was heavily damaged by Hurricane Michael. He's seen firsthand what happens when a community is hit hard and the tough rebuilding that follows. He's here to share his insights on why it's crucial to build homes that can withstand floods. We'll explore the tough choices homeowners face. Do you ignore the advice and hope for the best, or do you take steps to make your home safe? Del's story is about learning from the past to build a better future. He knows the importance of getting a community on board with higher building standards that can prevent such disasters from happening again. I'm George Siegal, and this is Home Owners Be Aware the podcast that teaches you everything you need to know about being a homeowner. Del. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Del Schwalls: 1:21

Thanks, george, we'll be here.

George Siegal: 1:23

What part of the country are you in as I'm speaking to you?

Del Schwalls: 1:26

I'm in sunny Orlando Florida.

George Siegal: 1:28

Very nice, Alright, not too far from Tampa Now. I met you when we were interviewing you for the documentary film I'm making Built to Last Buyer. Beware and I know you're a floodplain manager, you're a floodplain expert. When people hear that they don't always understand what that is, Tell us exactly what a floodplain manager is.

Del Schwalls: 1:50

Well, it's a thousand different hats depending on who you're talking to, but in general, we're looking at ways to manage the flood risk, so reducing flood damage, looking at how new things are built in the flood risk area and making sure they're built correctly. Managing the natural functions of the floodplain, so ensuring we're actually using the floodplain for what it's designed to be, which is flooded. It's not called a dry plane, it's called a floodplain for a reason, and so essentially working through how human interaction with a natural floodplain happens, and whether it be building infrastructure or just natural functions.

George Siegal: 2:43

Yeah, people really need to understand how important that is, and I thought, well, maybe we'd get a few good things out of you. We could have turned this into the Dell movie, because you had so many interesting things to say and, in particular, about Mexico Beach, because I made another documentary there after Hurricane Michael in 2018. And I was so hopeful that they would take that storm, use it as an example and then really do things better. But it hasn't turned out that way. Tell people the way it's going up there.

Del Schwalls: 3:11

Well, it started that way and I think there were some really good intentions initially after the storms.

Del Schwalls: 3:20

But hindsight is 20-20 until you stop looking at the past and I think the memory got short. And so, whereas right after the storm the city did look at building safer and it wasn't abandoned ship, which a lot of people would say would be the way to go you have a 14-foot wave come through part of your town. You know it's definitely part of the conversation, but it was looking at what's a higher standard, a more resilient standard to rebuild, and they did for a while, and then political pressure came in and it's more expensive. That conversation came in, of course, and eventually the elected officials step back and lowered the standards again, which is really disheartening for somebody like me who not only am I in this industry but I have a vested stake in this community because I have family and friends who either have vacation houses there or live their year-round. And to see the short memory go from building higher to allowing somebody who had a 14-foot wave come to their house to rebuild six inches off the ground is hard to stomach.

George Siegal: 4:41

I can imagine and it's not like you're just some guy sitting in Tallahassee who says this is what you have to do. Like you said, you have a vested interest in that community. Your mom lives there. You want that to succeed and they had you as a resource which I would think they would have wanted to take advantage of, and it didn't sound like they took full advantage of what could have been some incredibly good advice.

Del Schwalls: 5:04

Well, yeah, so I was a I guess, a free resource initially. I was a stakeholder in the recovery process, helping my parents navigate the recovery process, a lot of friends and family. So right after Hurricane Michael I was part of the Mexico Beach Facebook group and I just threw my name out and said, hey, I'm in this industry, I'm happy to help anybody go through the process and explore things. And then I was watching a lot of the conversations. I was talking to some of the staff. I actually had one of the city attorneys reach out to me and asked me questions. A city commissioner reached out to me and we had an hour-long conversation about new regulations and what to do and how to implement that. But I guess the more information I shared, the less popular some of that information was. And yeah, I definitely was not part of the full conversation.

George Siegal: 6:10

By the end we'll say yeah, because people might ask questions, but they already have figured out what they want to hear back from you and then if they don't like the answer, it can be very frustrating for them. Now I had never been to Mexico Beach until after Michael, so I didn't see what it looked like in its original stage. But I imagine along the beach some houses were elevated, some were not based on what washed away. Now it looks like everything close to the water is being elevated. So where are they really falling apart in this process and just not going up high enough?

Del Schwalls: 6:43

Well, we've got a little bit of state regulation that's overruling, kind of what the city would do if they had their preference.

Del Schwalls: 6:53

So a lot of the homes that were there before were built in the 50s or 40s or even earlier, before the flood maps were established, before the flood regulations and before some of the state close to erosion regulations.

Del Schwalls: 7:07

So most of those houses were slab on grade homes and the elevated homes are going to be more of your modern, your more recent development. But you've got the coastal construction control line, the CCCL, which runs through about. It's just seaword of Highway 98, which runs down the middle of Mexico Beach, and so anything seaword of that has to be built up higher regardless of the local regulations, and so that kind of overrides it. And so a lot of those you're seeing that are built up higher since the last year and a half are going to be built because the state requires it, cccl requires it, whereas the city's regulations say if you're in the hundred-year flood zone you only have to be a foot and a half above FEMA's number, and the state minimum is a foot above. So it's only six inches higher than the same requirement in Orlando, which is not going to have a way to come through it.

George Siegal: 8:07

Now, and can you if you're on the water side of the highway? So are you saying you're not allowed to go as low as 18 inches off the street, or, if you're right by the highway, it's okay to be that low?

Del Schwalls: 8:19

Well, the coastal construction line runs a long parallel to the highway but it doesn't hit all the houses. For example, it hits my parents' house which is four houses from the ocean, but it won't catch some of the other neighbors. So to answer the question, I guess more directly, the state says you have to be elevated, but for the city regulations, some of those homes that are just next to Highway 98, that are four houses from the ocean, they can be built 18 inches above the ground.

George Siegal: 8:59

Wow, that would. That would be a very questionable choice. I would think to to do something like that. And another thing you said that was really interesting and I think this can apply to people that live anywhere Is when you understand the flood zone that you're in, in the neighborhood that you're in, and some people go, yeah, block over there in the flood zone, but I'm not. That's really a false sense of confidence on where water is going to stop if all hell breaks, lose and there's a massive flooding event. So why are people so cavalier about those?

Del Schwalls: 9:28

Well, I think one of the things we do in the floodplain management community, and especially the communities themselves, is we use the word flood zone to mean floodplain, and they are not the same word at all.

Del Schwalls: 9:43

Flood zone is an area that's been mapped by somebody to quantify a certain risk, usually related to Protecting an investment of insurance. So if I'm going to insure your property, you have to at least do this minimal and. But floods don't read maps, and so the idea that a arbitrary line on the we're not arbitrary, it's based on data, is based on analysis. But the idea that a line on the map drone at the county level of resolution is going to inform a flood and and it doesn't quite pass the sniff test. And Once you start talking with somebody about this and the logic of it, they usually recognize oh well, of course, the floods not gonna behave like the map says. But we forget that immediately when we start actually doing things. We honestly like the general Individual who's either building a house choosing whether they buy flood insurance or the community regulating it. We behave as if the floods going to stop at a line because we drew it on a map.

George Siegal: 10:56

Couldn't people actually see that as an opportunity? So if, if, if you're a block away from the flood zone and you're not marked as a as a as a higher risk, you probably get flood insurance for less money, then the people that are in that zone and, and the bottom line is, anybody that lives anywhere in those areas in fact anybody anywhere Probably wants to have flood insurance.

Del Schwalls: 11:18

Well, under the previous FEMA flood insurance rating system, in or out of that flood zone would translate to a cheaper flood insurance policy. However, under the new system, the analysis ignores the flood zones. So even FEMA has recognized that the binary in versus out Category doesn't work for flooding protection.

George Siegal: 11:47

So the days of scoring a great deal are gone. So, like all those people from Hurricane Harvey that were near the dam but they weren't in a flood area, now they would, in theory, have to pay a lot more to have flood insurance there, or is that? How does that work?

Del Schwalls: 11:59

well, the Assessed flood insurance premium is now at the higher level, but if you already had flood insurance at the lower level, you're on a glide path to get there, so that anybody knew now is going to be paying more. Absolutely so they still should.

George Siegal: 12:18

They still should think about having it.

Del Schwalls: 12:20

Well, absolutely. You know. It's like my parents. My mom said they weren't going to get flood insurance because they were in the X zone, and I very quickly Informed her they were going to get flood insurance, and then a 14 foot wave came through the house, and so you. I've had a lot of conversations with homeowners on barrier islands. They can see the ocean and they complain that 900 a year in flood insurance is just too expensive. And it seems too expensive when you're used to paying 500 a year. But when you're on a barrier island, the risk is in the word it's a barrier to the hurricanes. And then you start talking about Somebody's risk near the ocean versus somebody's risk in the middle of Kansas, 20 miles from a river. Should you be paying the same thing for flood insurance? Probably not.

George Siegal: 13:19

I've just heard so many stories of people in other parts of the country that, because of construction in the area, the town to the north of them, things change, the dynamics change and all of a sudden, water is now a problem for them. And you really have to be so aware, not just of your situation but the entire situation around you.

Del Schwalls: 13:40

Yeah, so back in the 70s, when the FEMA flood regulations first got established, after Hurricane Donna really triggered the need for a national flood insurance program, the idea of planning for the future conditions is embedded in the regulations. It's a federal requirement. Nobody follows it and FEMA doesn't enforce it. So when we started this conversation, fema said, yes, you have to look at the future. What's the ultimate development going to be? But I guess it's hard to manage. It's expensive, it's very administratively challenging. So it got thrown out the window very quickly and there's not a lot of communities that actually enforce that federal regulation and FEMA's not requiring it most of the time.

George Siegal: 14:27

That seems kind of contrary to being proactive about disasters. Isn't it a lot cheaper to think about it on the front end than to clean up on the back end?

Del Schwalls: 14:36

It is, and I'm definitely not trying to throw FEMA under the bus. You know FEMA's a very small word to describe a giant group of people. At the end of the day, you have limited resources and where are we going to spend those resources? But yeah, it is much more cost effective to prevent the damage than repairing it later. Out of all the analysis and the reports that have looked at this, some say for every dollar you spend preventing the damage, you save six on recovering. And even the most low estimate say $1 saves four. And so it's extremely beneficial financially to keep the damage from happening.

George Siegal: 15:19

And then we talked to another gentleman in Mexico Beach who was we talked to him out on the street looking up at all the houses that are being elevated, but they're being made out of wood, and he thought they should all be built like the house we featured in the last house, standing out of some type of block reinforcement not wood, and not just because of of flooding but because of wind. And he said when you're elevating these wood structures now, the higher you go, the stronger the wind is. So he thought they might be more dangerous now that they're elevated than they were at ground level.

Del Schwalls: 15:53

Well, sometimes they can be and there is a benefit to having a little bit of movement. You know it's like when you build a bridge. You don't build a bridge to be rock solid it needs to move with the wind. That makes it safer, so the building materials may have something like that. I'm not a structural engineer so don't quote me on that, but you know it's funny. With the last house standing conversation at the National Flood Conference for ASFPM several years ago, that house came up a lot right after Hurricane Michael and some of those storms and there was a really big mixed emotion about it because a lot of the design professionals in the flood world were saying we don't want to communicate the idea of build a tank on the beach and you're fine, especially with sea level rise and climate change coming about, because you can build something that will withstand it. But does it make sense to spend $9 per dollar you could have to build that tank or would another option be warranted?

George Siegal: 17:09

Yeah, we did see some impressive construction over in Panama City where they have the tie downs from the foundation to the first floor to the second floor. It's all connected. It's all pretty tight. But I've had people tell me, yeah, but if there's a category five hurricane, that's not going to do as well as a concrete block house would. But a gentleman I interviewed in the last house standing, hank Ovinck, talked about how much can you bunker your community? How much can people, will people spend? So maybe they're doing it right. I guess we won't know until the next disaster and you never really want to find out that way, because then it's too late.

Del Schwalls: 17:45

Yeah, well, and it's the idea of what's acceptable risk. We looked at. You know, hurricane Michael came through Mexico Beach with a 14 foot deep wave. Do you build everything in Mexico Beach 14 feet off the ground? Well, that would protect you from a Michael. But a mile and a half down the road there wasn't even ocean on the ground in some areas. So do we want to protect from a Hurricane Michael 14 foot wave, or is there a lower level to protect, to knowing that if a big one hits, we're going to get damaged? But we're going to accept that risk. You know it's how many. How many donuts do you eat for your health? Well, there's an acceptable amount of risk for the enjoyment of that extra donut. And so I think that's part of the conversation is what is the acceptable risk? Because we can't protect everything.

George Siegal: 18:39

Well, if I saw you stuff in your face with donuts and I'm sitting right next to you and then I see you have a heart attack and die, I might think twice about eating donuts. Exactly yes.

Del Schwalls: 18:49

But in reality, you know, I've got family. Well, I won't go down these rabbit trails because they have, but yeah, it's a very valid statement.

George Siegal: 19:01

So when you look at your mom's house as an example, it was elevated, but it got a lot of water inside. What was that like after Michael?

Del Schwalls: 19:10

Well. So there were a couple of perfect storm conditions going on with her house as well. So the house was built at a higher standard because the original person who built it wanted to, so it's elevated. The bottom level was breakway walls, so when the waves came through, it pushed out the stairwell walls without pushing the building over, which is great. That's what it's designed to do and they had hurricane shutters which kept the wind and the rain out. The problem is is, once that bottom level got pushed out, then the wind got in, went up the stairwell and pushed the shutters out from the inside, and so then the rain driven water got in from top to bottom, and so, while the structure, the envelope, was still standing about the end of it, the whole thing had to be gutted, the water sealant drywall pulled out down to the rafters and to the studs.

George Siegal: 20:08

And how long, how many years did it take to get it back to normal?

Del Schwalls: 20:14

A year and a half, I think they got the CO, I believe in April of 2020.

George Siegal: 20:23

Okay now I was interviewing a gentleman the other day. We were talking about that wood construction that they do up in the panhandle and he said his biggest concern is not necessarily the wind worrying about it Like you say, you can't always plan for the worst kind of disaster but because it's there's so much wood when water does get in. We have a huge termite problem In the state of Florida and you get that decay around windows and in parts of the wall and then the structure is compromised Because that wood is now deteriorating and has been devoured by termites. And he said that's actually a bigger risk.

Del Schwalls: 20:56

Yeah, it's, it's all part of that, that conversation, because one piece of damage opens it up to more, just like the wind damage opened it up to rain Water damage. Well, now you got rotting woods, you have mold and you have deteriorating woods, so you have termites and and, and, so it's definitely a combination there. If you can stop one, you can stop the other, and a lot of times yeah, we're probably requires a lot of maintenance.

George Siegal: 21:24

Yesterday I interviewed the, the CEO of the Tampa Housing Authority, and it was really fascinating to see all the new homes they're building For people that are concrete. They're only building concrete apartment complexes, whereas a mile away from them, for the rest of the population, they're building wood Apartment complexes. So it's like somebody has it figured out and somebody's just ripe for a disaster.

Del Schwalls: 21:50

Yeah, well, and if you were talking to, let's say, the average homeowner in Mexico Beach, their first response is gonna be well, we had concrete block homes on Mexico Beach and those all got washed away. Of course, they were slab on grade with no rebar connecting everything. And so the anytime the one size fits all kind of blanket statement comes into into a conversation about flood resiliency, it very quickly communicates the wrong message. You know, wood versus concrete? Well, there's some areas where a Wood structure might be that, but the, the tie-down, the connection points the foundation to the piles, to the walls, to the roof. Spreading out that force of the hurricane wind or even the flood waters across the entire structure is always Beneficial. And then what is my construction Material comes into play as part of that conversation.

George Siegal: 22:53

Did you get a chance to get out to Panama City and see the house that tipped over in the tornado in January?

Del Schwalls: 22:59

I did not there's a.

George Siegal: 23:01

That's amazing. We went over there and got video of that. I mean it says second time it's happened to that house. There's a row of houses on the beach there and with the same house tipped over. That happened several years ago and it was just that one house. Everything else was fine, and Then behind that, where that tornado hit, an entire block of homes that were apartments older buildings were completely destroyed by by a tornado. And I interviewed Roy Wright, who's an expert on resiliency and how to build things the right way Because of the studies that they do with his organization, and he said newer structures, structures that are built right, wouldn't have that with your Regular tornadoes, that there are things we have the technology to build better, but the older structures are going to be vulnerable and then poor construction is always going to be vulnerable.

Del Schwalls: 23:52

Yeah, and it's funny, I was talking to a gentleman in Centabel who had a house there, house from the 1800s. His family's been in their family for you know, generations and during one of the hurricanes that house was literally picked up. It's a two-story house. Wood frame construction was picked up and moved I don't know two or three houses down. The entire thing was intact. It was a very strongly built, you know, a Very strongly built. You know old hardwood timber Construction and so all they did was go in and put Tim rolling timbers under it and roll it back into place. And Because that's what they did back in the 1800s, because they knew the waves are gonna come, but nowadays a house like that would have been completely, you know, destroyed by the water.

George Siegal: 24:48

Yeah. Dynamic that is you boy. If you have a chance to look that up or Google it in Panama City, I mean, it's really unbelievable and it's even more stunning to see it in person. It almost looks like a set of toy houses and then one is just knocked over, but unfortunately that's somebody's life. That's there. That's a lot of money it's gonna take to fix that and the fact that it's happened twice. Good luck selling that house now.

Del Schwalls: 25:11

Yeah, well, I gave a presentation on the Mexico Beach recovery at the Australian floodplain conference this past year and One of the examples I use is a homeowner in Mexico Beach had a four-story home, but the picture I show you is a two-story house, completely intact. It's a blue house. We're like well, what happened here? And you don't realize that those two stories that are on the ground are story number three and four of the house that was Two blocks away. It's a. During the hurricane Michael it washed out the bottom two and somehow Took the third and fourth story and just floated it along and set it down and the whole thing was intact. It was just. It was the head, not the body.

George Siegal: 25:58

You know, I've always wondered why people choose some of the colors that you do to paint their house. Maybe because it's easier to find it once it blows away. You know, we're chuckling about it, but it's so heartbreaking when you see it. It's like we used to go to Santa Belle Island every year and it's just devastating what happened there. They have such a long road to recovery. It's just.

Del Schwalls: 26:19

It's really sad to see yeah, and I think one of the problems with the whole flood recovery industry in general is it it's such a sound bite today that's gone tomorrow. If you talk to people about Mexico Beach today, they may say, oh yeah, that was that city from years ago, I think. But yeah, they're fine now because nobody's really paying attention, just like Panama City or Fort Myers Beach. Those areas, once it's past the headlines, we kind of forget about it. And the practical application of that is that we often forget to continue to learn the lessons that nature has already taught us, and so we memory is short.

George Siegal: 27:05

Yeah, when you hear the term and I've heard so many people say this when I've interviewed them or talked to the people in the community Well, maybe this will serve as a wake-up call. I kind of feel we should already be awake. We have the technology to know we can do it better. We can all see video of what happened to kind of relive it. Why do we continue to make the same mistakes?

Del Schwalls: 27:27

Yeah, well, and I think that's a universal truth and the wake-up call. We see plenty of them, but it won't happen to me. And then when it does happen to you, it doesn't always change behavior. You know if. If you have a heart attack, do you immediately go healthy. If you have a lung cancer scare, do you immediately stop smoking? So those kind of same connections. If my neighbor flooded, does that mean I'm gonna abandon any area that could flood?

George Siegal: 27:59

Yes, yes and yes.

Del Schwalls: 28:01

It should and it.

George Siegal: 28:02

You know that what it Excuse me. What is true is we only see what the media covers. It's like we stayed in a place and we were up there Fort St Joe. I had never heard of that. I didn't know they even existed when, because all the focus was Mexico Beach. They were wiped out pretty bad too, and it's just. There's so many areas that you never hear about. But they're living a very sad existence now or a long road of recovery because they weren't properly prepared.

Del Schwalls: 28:34

Yeah, there's a lot of areas like that that they don't make the sizzle reel on the weather channel or they're one video versus all the others and and so we overlook it.

Del Schwalls: 28:48

And you know it's like when you know some of these smaller communities get hit with with the hurricanes and the storm surges, they just if they're not as well known of a name or it doesn't grab somebody in a sound bite, we kind of overlook them. You know there's a county north of Panama City that has been fighting, flooding, ever since Hurricane Michael and the entire county has had issues with. You know, before Michael, no real, real big flooding problems and every since then, because of the way the storm Demolish the tree inventory so there's less trees, drinking groundwater, so when it rains the water stays, and even some things we don't understand. There are Areas that used to be fields that have been a lake every since Michael and it goes down a little bit and it comes back up. So you have people that have been in these areas for generations, never had any standing water and now their entire yard has been a lake for two and a half years.

Del Schwalls: 29:55

Well, that's rough that and and they and they cry out for help, and they raised their hands for help, but nobody pays attention. Because if I said the county, you'd say, well, I've never even heard of that place.

George Siegal: 30:07

Yeah, if it doesn't, if it doesn't get in the spotlight, it's very hard to To have it change. What is the what's the takeaway here, then, for people? When you're trying to pick a place to live, you're trying to make a good decision. How can you best position yourself to not become a flood victim?

Del Schwalls: 30:27

Well, wait, before I jump into that, I do want to mention that County. I'm talking about Washington County. I wasn't gonna mention their name, but they, their name doesn't get mentioned enough. So I will say that that community, that County, has been hurting ever since Michael and they need to be a little more focused on. But as far as when you buy a home, being informed and not trusting somebody else to tell you what you need to know.

Del Schwalls: 30:52

And this came up in in Orlando when Hurricane Irma came through, your hurricane Ian came through, the whole city was under water, basically at times. And and everybody's running around in Orlando thinking how is this possible? How is this possible? I was talking to my friends, parents, who were standing on their street and the three lakes in the neighborhood were all one giant lake. And her mom said I cannot believe the waters is high. And I said well, the FEMA footmap show this is where it's supposed to be or where it's going to be. And she was so surprised that there was a map showing this level of inundation. And so they've lived there for decades.

Del Schwalls: 31:38

But the idea that when we make a purchase, we're trusting the person selling us the property to disclose all the risk, that, first of all, is a little naive, because there's a conflict of interest in the person selling you something and and them telling you all the problems with that thing, because there's a concern that's going to hurt the property value, and even relying on the realtor who's helping us buy it. They only have a certain level of expertise and most realtors are not fluent in flood, even in a state like Florida, and so, as a homeowner looking to buy something, you've got to make sure you're you're trusting, you're not just relying on big brother to tell you everything that you need to know, and so really doing a lot of research.

George Siegal: 32:34

You ever play the game hot potato when you were growing up, where you just that's that's what a lot of it seems like owning houses around here is it's like, well, I'll just toss it to the next person and make it their problem. Somebody's got to put their foot down and say this isn't safe.

Del Schwalls: 32:47

Yeah, when that gets into the, the flood disclosure laws. And this is a huge battle because there is no federal flood insurance requirement or disclosure requirement or, sorry, flood damage disclosure or even a disclosure that flood insurance is going to be required until you show up to the closing and that gets implemented a lot at the local level or some states have these rules, but it's an issue because the realtor lobby, you know, the folks selling properties, are concerned that this is going to decrease the value of the property. And so as I have the conversation about flood disclosure, I always go. I always go towards why Well, I don't want to disclose it because then it's going to decrease the property. That why? Well, because then people will know they have to buy foot insurance.

Del Schwalls: 33:44

Okay, so you don't want the person buying it to know what they're buying. And it's really hard for them to backpedal away from that conversation Because the, at the end of the day, whether it hurts property value, it reduces the amount of sales. It always lands on If the person buying it new, they pay less, they may not buy it. They be informed and I stand up at city commission meetings and when people push back they, they will not say that out loud, and so it quickly changes the conversation. Well, why can't?

George Siegal: 34:23

and I think we discussed this when I was with you in person. Why can't there be car facts reports for houses that are really extensive? Because if my car floods and I go to try to dump it off on my neighbor, they can at least look at that car facts report and they're going to know why. Why isn't there that kind of registry? That should be an absolute no brainer.

Del Schwalls: 34:44

Well it it should be. But then you've got the the other side that's pushing back against it, because Once again, if you know, my house flooded. It's going to be harder for me to sell it and also there's a lot of well and we should. But then there's the political pressure, but there's also a lot of data needed for that and there's a cost associated with it. And really, george, one thing I think we forget is that we are often over educated beyond what we take action on anyway. I had somebody say years ago you know, we're educated beyond our own obedience. So if I give you more data, if you're not using the data you have now, why would I expect you to use it if I give you more data?

George Siegal: 35:36

Well, I think with a house, I think with a house it could stay with a little more, especially the Zillow or one of those places Picked it up. I mean, sure, I understand you want to sell houses, but that doesn't mean it's a free-for-all, that you should be able to say, well, let's just let these people screw the next person. I mean that it's got to stop somewhere. And I think every house should have a permanent record. You know, if I go shoot somebody, that's going on my permanent record.

Del Schwalls: 36:00

I think houses need that and I 100% agree and I wish we had that for sure. It's finding the political will to get it across the finish line and to get it actually passed in the legislation. And that's the bout, that. That's the battle there, because you always have somebody saying, well, you're hurting, you're hurting my ability to sell it. And of course it spins to the well, you don't want somebody to know the risk. It's that back-and-forth conversation. So I'm with you 100%. I wish we had a house facts that had a. History.

George Siegal: 36:33

I agree and not to go off on some rant, but I think anything that relies on politicians getting something done, we're completely screwed because, as we learned, as we're learning when we're talking making this film, the lobbying efforts that go on up there, the fact that almost everybody that when you read stories about people that got into politics to be Public servants and they end leaving the office and they're so wealthy, I mean somehow the system is not working really good.

Del Schwalls: 36:57

Yeah, well, I'm on the board of directors for the Florida floodplain managers association and we're the Florida chapter. There's a national association of state footplay managers and almost every state has a state footplay manager chapter, and so one of our jobs is to educate the elected officials and educate the, the folks in Tallahassee, on legislation because, like you said, the lobbyists they're such a powerhouse and such deep pockets, and so one of the benefits of this organization with FFMA, is that we can we don't lobby, we educate and we're trying to help the, the folks, push in the laws, see the unden, unintended consequences of that legislation and how it affects their, their citizens, which is tricky.

George Siegal: 37:47

I've met so many Really interesting people that are floodplain managers, been to some conferences and everything, and I think you guys do a great job. How can we turn you into lobbyists? Okay, let's get you guys up there to start paying people off, because you'll be doing it for us. You'll be on the right side of it well, and we're trying, and the well.

Del Schwalls: 38:07

The number one thing for lobbyists is funding. You know, I mean, where do you, how do you fund that kind of effort? But also, once you step across into the lobbying realm, you can lose credibility, because if I'm pushing something for an entity with an agenda that's very different than we're a nonprofit organization Sharing education and and we really do we we dance the line of lobbying. Because, you know, with our nonprofit status, we're not allowed to do any lobbying and so we're just trying to educate the elected officials. But our goal, my goal, would be for us to be at the table. You know we have a flood issue. Let's call the floodplain management association and ask their input, ask their questions, to help drive that conversation.

George Siegal: 38:59

Absolutely that. Everybody should be tapping into you guys as a resource, and even people moving to a community. They should call down to the, to the city, and find out who the floodplain manager is and ask them questions.

Del Schwalls: 39:09

Yeah, that's. One of my favorite things is our executive director will send us an email because I'm on the board and say Random, homeowner Suzy Smith just emailed us and said I found you online, I'm buying a property, I want your input and it's such a great feeling to see that we're. We're getting out there, or the FEMA will refer them to us. Occasionally We'll refer developers and property owners to us, but we're and we're a limited resource. There's always so many people in an organization so we can only do so much, but we're trying.

George Siegal: 39:42

I think it's because of me, because I'm telling everybody now. So three or four more people know and they're all gonna do something. But hey, del, thank you for the work that you do. Thanks for being in the film. I appreciate you doing the podcast. How can people get in touch with you or follow you? Any social media or any good way to get to reach out to you?

Del Schwalls: 40:01

Yeah, I'm a D Schwalls is my LinkedIn, you can follow me there and I think the best way go to FL floods, to Florida FL floods, and that is the FFMA website and I'm on the board of directors and any resources you need. Are there any contact? And we have 1100 members across the state of Florida, most of which are community officials, and so if you want information about your local community and the flood risk Odds are, your local floodplain manager is part of our organization. But, yeah, definitely reach out and just get informed. You cannot be Overly informed when you're buying property in Florida, because if you're in Florida, you're in a floodplain Period. If where it rains, it can flood, if you can see the river, if you can see the ocean, you can see the lake, you can get wet.

George Siegal: 40:55

Well, thank you for getting me nervous way before hurricane season, but everybody needs to know this stuff. I mean, it's not always fun to hear it, but it's important to hear it.

Del Schwalls: 41:04

Absolutely, and I think I also mentioned Gilbert white, who was kind of the father of floodplain management. He had one of my favorite quotes by him. He said Nature doesn't cause disasters, nature causes events. It's only a disaster when people get in the way. And I think with floodplain management that's a really accurate statement. The floodplain is gonna flood and if nobody's there to get damaged, we don't call it a disaster, we call it an event. And so, looking at the floodplain, recognizing it's supposed to flood, and how can we use that as part of our community and let it do what it's supposed to do, rather than trying to Dry out the floodplain? All right, hey, del great advice.

George Siegal: 41:53

Thank you so much. Appreciate your time. Thanks, george, enjoy being with you.

Del Schwalls: 41:55

If you have a story about your house, good or bad. I'd like to hear from you.

George Siegal: 42:02

There's a contact form in the show notes. Fill it out and send it my way. You might be a guest on an upcoming episode. Thanks again for taking the time to listen today. I'll see you next time.