We Need to Build Better to Survive Hurricanes with Brock Long

October 11, 2022
54. We Need to Build Better to Survive Hurricanes with Brock Long

The devastation Hurricane Ian caused in Southwest Florida could just as easily have happened in the Tampa/St. Petersburg area. Former FEMA Administrator & Executive Chairman at Hagerty Consulting Brock Long talks about what people need to do to be better prepared.

Here are some important moments with Brock Long from the podcast: 

At 4:18 Brock talks about why people need to take evacuation orders seriously.

 At 10:40 Brock answers the question, why do we keep rebuilding to standards that are lower than the disasters that destroyed the community?

At 20:56 Brock talks about how Congress needs to change the Stafford Act so communities that build the right way with stronger building codes get rewarded. Currently, local areas have no incentive to insure their infrastructure or build it correctly. 

Here are some ways to follow and contact or follow Brock Long:

Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brock-long-62742a17/ 

Website: hagertyconsulting.com

Important information from Homeowners Be Aware:

Here are ways you can follow us on-line:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/homeownersbeaware/

Website: https://homeownersbeaware.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-siegal/

If you'd like to reach me for any reason, here's the link to my contact form:

https://homeownersbeaware.com/contact

Here's the link to the trailer for the documentary film I'm making: Built to Last: Buyer Beware.

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Transcript

Brock Long: 0:00

Here's the thing. I agree, George. I mean, I think that we ought to be building for a standard we haven't seen yet. Right? I mean, if we're truly focused on, you know, building resilient communities, then we have to build to a standard that's higher than what Mother Nature's currently throwing at us. In some cases, politics and lobbying, big lobbying money gets in the way of doing what's right. You know, there's a big argument that, you know, building higher, you know, building to higher standards increases construction costs. Well, it might. But is it more than the amount of money we've been spending as a country to fix, you know, communities from all these storms and wildfires? I would highly doubt it. I, I'd love to hold the hand of people that believe that building, you know, building codes is too expensive. You know, to hire standards is too expensive. I'll take 'em by the hand and walk 'em through some of these devastated communities and ask 'em what's more expensive.

George Siegal: 0:45

I'm George Siegal, and this is the Tell Us How to Make. It Better podcast. Every week we introduce you to people who are working on real world problems and providing actual solutions. Tell Us How to Make it Better is partnering with The Readiness Lab, the home for podcasts webinars and training in the field of emergency and disaster services. Hi everybody. Thank you so much for joining me on this week's Tell Us How to Make It Better podcast. As a little time has gone by now since Hurricane Ian hit, we're seeing the horrific images and stories that have come out of Southwest Florida and how people's lives are changed forever. What's interesting to me is what will that do to places like where I live, Tampa, Florida, where we were forecast to get that storm for much of the duration. and then it ended up turning and going south. So what will change in our area that will either have people more prepared or have them evacuate and make sure they have insurance and all the things they need to do if a disaster hits because our area is pegged to be worse. If that kind of storm hit, then what happened in Southwest Florida? It's our doomsday scenario here. So that's one of the things I want to talk about with my guest today. Who is the former administrator of fema? We interviewed him in my documentary film, The Last House Standing. We were able to get into FEMA and talk to, to Brock Long, and it was a great interview then, and he has a lot of great information to share with us today. My guest today is Brock Long, executive Chairman at Haggerty Consulting and the former administrator at FEMA Brock, thank you so much for your time today.

Brock Long: 2:19

George, it's good to be back with you. And I appreciate your work to try to help people understand how to build resilient communities. Thanks. Thanks for letting me be here.

George Siegal: 2:27

I'm glad to have you. Now let's talk about Ian and, and the images that you're seeing coming out of there, the videos and everything. It's just, you know, you say you wanna use terms like unimaginable. It is to see this. What are your thoughts so far?

Brock Long: 2:38

You know, hurricane Ian unfortunately is probably gonna be the most costly disaster, if not one of the most deadly already that the state of Florida has seen. And it's, you know, in its history. This is the storm that we caution everybody about. It's the one that we've gotta get better when it comes to designing resilient communities along the coast and the future. And you know, it's a reminder that none of these hurricanes are alike. They're all different, They all attack differently. There is no category force, you know, hurricane that's the same. And the vulnerabilities are different based upon where they make landfall. And we've got a lot of work to do to educate the public about how to be prepared. I think some laws have to change and some incentives have to be put into place to increase building codes and land use planning along, you know, in areas that are vulnerable, not only to hurricanes, but maybe wildfires, you know, and, and floods, you know? So we got a lot of work. George, you gotta keep up the good work of getting the message out.

George Siegal: 3:31

Now, as you know firsthand from your time at FEMA, the finger pointing always starts right after a disaster. Who's a who? How did this happen? Who's to blame? There's a meteorologist that I really like to follow, Brian Norcross and I read an article that, that he wrote about the cone and how this storm was in the cone. It was the far right side of the cone, but it's when do people evacuate? When do they say, I'm not gonna be safe? That's a tough call for people and I live in Tampa and I, so I know we didn't evacuate, and now that I've seen what happened In that area. I'm going we, we might have been wiped out here.

Brock Long: 4:07

So George, you know, listen as a former FEMA administrator let's just say I have been the bull fighter in the arena and received all the criticisms, criticism in the world. And you know, America's gotta stop blaming a single point of failure for all the problems that are going that, that hurricane Ian provided us. We're all at fault. You know, we, we all have to get better. We all have to figure out what our part is to become resilient. And when it comes to an evacuation, I think a lot of people don't realize that the main reason you evacuate is because of the, the storm surge hazard that's associated with major landfall and hurricanes. You know, the key is get the people out of the areas that are gonna flood and into facilities that can withstand the winds. Right. And in this case, Ian was a lesson about storm surge and we continued to not learn that lesson historically, even though hundreds of people die on a regular basis from from storm surge events. And here's the thing I've always said, unfortunately, you know, while storm surge is the hazard associated with hurricanes that can kill the most amount of people and has the highest potential to cause the most amount of damage. It's also the unforgiving hazard, George. So what I mean by that is, is a lot of people that experience 12, 15, 18 feet of storm surge don't live to talk about it. So we lose that, We lose that story. It's unlike, you know, people who experienced tornadoes going to ground and, and can describe what the wind sounded like. That doesn't happen here. So what I'm really afraid of, George is five, 10 years from now, people will forget, you know, forget why people lost their lives in Ian. And when it comes to the evacuation piece it's not one person that's responsible for issuing an evacuation. And these storm surge, you know, these hurricane forecasts are, are uncertain in many cases. If you look at Hurricane Ian's track forecast, it fluctuated between Southwest Florida and all the way up to Appalachiacola. Hundreds of miles of coastline over a five day period and back, back and forth and you know, it's You know what, it's not an exact science. If it was an exact science, it would make things a lot easier, George. But it, but in this case, this forecast fluctuated you know, several hundred miles, north and south, up and down the coastline, and it presents a lot of challenges as a result.

George Siegal: 6:16

Yeah. You know, there was, I read a story this morning of four women who were visiting Fort Myers, and they were trapped in a structure that was flooding. One of them was killed by a nail in the roof as the water filled up. I think, I believe the other three got out. We'll probably be hearing more about this in the coming days. But a lot of times when people are told to evacuate, and I see this in every place that I've ever lived, they don't go. So it's easy to blame people, people ultimately, it's personal responsibility, but people need to understand you're not getting away with a, a storm surge if you're not in a really high building or safe area.

Brock Long: 6:51

I think too, you know, one of the, one of the interesting You know, pieces of information that's lacking here is how many people have moved to Southwest Florida since Hurricane Charlie hit in 2004. Right? And, you know, we're blindly buying property. We're blind, we're blindly buying homes without understanding the hazards that are associated with the geographical location of our dwellings and how to be, you know, properly you know, properly prepared. The other aspect of this is that hurricanes are defined by wind intensity and not by storm surge threat. And so a lot of people will think, Well, I've bought a house. It's, you know, it can withstand the winds, but they're not thinking about whether or not it's properly elevated or where it is along, you know, the, the storm surge vulnerable areas and you know, so there's a lot of education when it comes to buying a home and preparing for it, but you're right. For whatever reason, historically, if you look at some of the past FEMA hurricane evacuation studies, you know, when you ask a hundred thousand people to evacuate an area you know, you might get an 85 to 90% participation rate, which, which means, you know, 10 or 15%. That's a lot of people that stay behind for whatever reasons and make their own educated guess. And it, it, it end up, you know, costing them their lives or, you know, or, or injuries or what, whatever it may be.

George Siegal: 8:03

And what's the responsibility of government in a place like Sanibel Island, which is completely isolated right now. I know they're gonna rebuild that bridge, but that relied almost completely on tourism and the people had summer homes there. But it seems like that it's so different from Mexico Beach. Do they rebuild it? Do they just put, give it back to nature? What do you do in a situation like that?

Brock Long: 8:26

You know, that's been the debate in emergency management. I, I'm not gonna speak for Sanibel off the bat. I mean, you know, they've gotta do what's right for Sanibel. But here's the thing. As a nation, when we go through major wildfires, when we go through major floods, when we go through hurricanes, if we don't build it correctly, mother nature's gonna work it out eventually, whether we like it or not. And You know, the thing is, is, you know, one of the things that I've been really pondering to George is that NASA, you know, a couple weeks ago, flew a satellite into an astroid seven mile, you know, 7 million miles away. They have the technology and the expertise to do that. Why do we not have the ability or the, the grit and the wherewithal to build properly in areas that are vulnerable to various different types of hazards?, I mean, maybe that's not a good analogy, but that's what's been going through my mind. And when communities do rebuild, they've gotta rebuild to the high standards. And one of the concerns that I have, George, is that, you know, over the last couple years during the covid, you know, as interest rates are really low, During the Covid years, more homes got built in the United States than ever before, according to some studies to the minimum standards of every state. So don't talk to me about being resilient if we're gonna allow that type of construction and building to continue knowing that disasters may be becoming more frequent and more intense.

George Siegal: 9:49

Well, Mexico Beach to me is a great example of what you're talking about. That's when I first met you and they rebuilt to 140 mile an hour winds. They got hit by a category five hurricane, so they're not even rebuilding to the standard that would survive the next category five hurricane. I don't understand the thinking with that.

Brock Long: 10:07

And, you know, here's the thing. I agree, George. I mean, I think that we ought to be building for a standard we haven't seen yet, right? I mean, if we're truly focused on, you know, building resilient communities, then we have to build to a standard that's higher than what Mother Nature's currently throwing at us. In some cases, politics and lobbying, big lobbying money gets in the way of doing what's right. You know, there's a big argument that, you know, building higher, you know, building to higher standards increases construction costs. Well, it might. But is it more than the amount of money we've been spending as a country to fix, you know, communities from all these storms and wildfires? I would highly doubt it. I, I'd love to hold the hand of people that believe that building, you know, building codes is too expensive, You know, to hire standards is too expensive. I'll take 'em by the hand and walk 'em through some of these devastated communities and ask 'em what's more expensive? You know, putting a little bit more money up front. But here's the thing. Why does the appraisal industry in this country not valuate homes that are mitigated, like the one that you featured in your movie Last House Standing? Why is that home not valuated higher than the home right next to it that's a similar square footage, same location, right? Has the appraisal industry, you know, really been educated to look for mitigation techniques in homes that would make that home more attractive and valuable than the home beside it that hasn't been mitigated. Why does the realtor industry, you know, not also start to promote mitigated homes over homes that haven't been mitigated? And so there's a lot of education that's got to take place in these different industries. And I think that change has gotta be a grassroots thing. It can't just come from the federal government saying build to a higher standard. It's also got to be these industries demanding higher quality construction in areas that we know are vulnereable.

George Siegal: 11:49

Yeah, the frustrating thing to look at is I think that if builders just took the charge and said, We're only building safe homes, they could solve this problem. It's like they have the cure for a lot of these problems, but when I talk to them, they say, We're not gonna spend the money if we don't know that they're gonna pay for it on the consumer end. So it doesn't it, it doesn't seem to get solved, which is pretty frustrating. Which brings me to the, the place that was supposed to be the bullseye where I live Tampa, Florida. And for days in advance, they were talking about it. And that is the doomsday scenario direction for a storm here, they estimate 400 billion in damage to this area it would be staggering. 60% of the businesses in Hillsborough County would've been wiped out 70% in Pinellas County. Sure. Yet, I don't think it's gonna change anything. I mean, I think people want to be prepared for after the disaster, but they don't do the work up front.

Brock Long: 12:38

And sadly, it's like I said, I think this country suffers from hurricane amnesia. You know, five, 10 years from now, people aren't gonna be talking about hurricane Ian, they're gonna be talking about the next storm that comes and, but, but the Tampa Bay area is one of FEMA's catastrophic planning initiative areas. There's a lot of catastrophic planning initiatives that were taking place over the last decade in Tampa. Tampa Bay is one of 'em because of the storm surge vulnerable issues that, that that are presented there. And the continental shelf is so shallow there that the storm surge vulnerability is great because of that. So essentially what I'm saying is, is that you can go 50 miles offshore. It's still pretty shallow, which is why storm surge is such a big problem. And you know, Tampa Bay is that area is very lucky, but you better, you know, You better understand that if you choose to live there, George, like you do, you better be ready for it. Understand your storm surge vulnerability. Understand what mitigation techniques you can put into your house over time and, and in some cases, does it make sense to live there and retire there?

George Siegal: 13:40

Well, in talking to friends and neighbors, I get the impression that it's already in some people's rear view mirror by now. Sure. You look down to the south and you go, Wow, that really is horrible for those people. And a lot of people here are giving a lot of money and trying to help them get back to somewhat of a normal life down the road. But I don't know that it's changing that much here. Are people getting generators? Are they going to have a better evacuation plan? Do they really understand where they live and what their risks are? Doesn't seem like that's gonna happen.

Brock Long: 14:10

Yeah, and I do believe that, you know, from a, from an asset poverty angle, it is you know, it's a tough ask to tell people to be prepared for three to five days or spend, you know, 10,000, $15,000 on their house to, for simple mitigation techniques or to buy a generator. It's a tough ask. You know, and that's, that's all part of it. You know, the other thing that we saw with the hurricane Ian forecast where you know, at one point it's Southwest Florida. The next point it's at Appalachiacola, and then eventually it works its way back to southwest Florida. Over a five day period, a lot of the media attention was on the Tampa area. And I think when citizens see where the media attention is, they tend to breathe a sigh of relief. And you know, they do. So not knowing that they're actually still very vulnerable to the, the uncertainties of those hurricane track forecast and intensity forecast.

George Siegal: 15:00

Now what I've seen in the past also is after a storm like this, now the next time the evacuation order's probably gonna be issued in a lot of places where people are gonna evacuate that didn't need to. And so maybe that time now, all those people are gonna be angry. So then the next time the evacuation order's given they're not gonna leave, it's, I don't know how you win that battle?

Brock Long: 15:18

We saw that with Hurricane Irma. You know, a lot of people were placed under evacuation orders and thankfully they weren't hit. But then they were frustrated by that, George, you know, why were we asked to, you know, we evacuated and not a single thing happened. Well, they don't understand all the uncertainties that go along with track forecasting and intensity forecasting. They don't understand storm surge forecasting, you know, based on how the winds impact or attack the coastline. And they get frustrated by that. They go back and they say, Well, you know what? I'm gonna wait the next one out. And you know, and then, and then where, you know, you, you have this other thing where people have experienced hurricanes in different parts of the country. But when they move to, you know, then they, they, they're under the gun for the next one. They don't realize that each hurricane is unique and different. You know, they attack differently. But I don't know, George, you know, I'm looking for great ideas to, to continue to try to save lives because you know, for whatever reason in the emergency management community, we have not been successful in being able to create a true culture preparedness within America.

George Siegal: 16:16

Now you talk about NASA deflecting asteroids. When you talk about 400 billion worth of damage to an area, if you said, Okay, we could take a hundred billion and build a big canal lock that will close and stop storm surge, is that preposterous? Is that something that's so out of the realm of reality that it would never happen?

Brock Long: 16:33

I. You know, I think mitigation can start, you know, more simply than, you know, in, in a more simple fashion than that. You know, one, it starts with land use planning, you know, why are we building in these areas? And if we do build in those areas, what is the code standard for residential codes and building codes? You know, are you properly insured? You know, you know, there, there's ways of doing it without building, you know, massive infrastructure to guard, storm surge, you know, those types of things. I think you start simple and build your way up. But, but then it's also an education piece, George. It's like we were talking, why does the appraisal industry not know how to look for mitigated homes over homes that aren't mitigated in areas that are vulnerable to hurricanes or wildfires or floods? Right. So it's education, it's infrastructure, it's building things correctly. It's You know, it's learning how to live with Mother Nature and it's building to a standard that's higher than what we've seen so far. If we know that it's gonna become more intense in the future.

George Siegal: 17:27

Now, less than half a mile from my house there, there's a waterfront where they build new houses, they tear down the old ones and they put up new ones. Some people put up houses with wood on the second floor. They're all elevated. The new ones at least 10 or 11 feet, but there's one that they put in probably 50 steel beams that went down deep into the ground. They're, everything is concrete. Everything is steel. There's no wood on this house. Is is that overdoing it? That house will be standing no matter what happens. But to, to survive storm surge, you gotta do something.

Brock Long: 17:58

Yep. And I don't think there is any, There, there, there is no such thing as overdoing it when it comes to mitigation. Particularly if we're not sure what the cert, you know, if, if the future's uncertain about how these hazards are gonna change or become more intense. Right. You know, the, the, the current level of codes in our country is not working. We, we know that we've seen multibillion dollar disaster after multibillion dollar disaster. The other thing that's gotta keep up with not only the dwellings is the infrastructure and how we rebuild new infrastructure. You know, let's not put those bridges back up to the same standard that, that supported these islands. Let's you know, let's rethink that too. And, you know, you might have the last house standing, but there's no water structure to support you, you living there either. There's no roadway system, there's no water infrastructure, sewer system. So it, you know, it's, it's you know, it's a total, it's a total rebuild in some cases to a much higher standard.

George Siegal: 18:47

Oh, sure. We have some head scratcher things here. Tampa General Hospital is on Davis Islands, which has one bridge going to it, but it's a huge hospital in this area. That bridge would get washed out by a 20 foot storm surge.

Brock Long: 18:58

Well, and if you look at Hurricane Irma George, look at where a lot of deaths occurred in rest area. You know, in assisted living facilities, Why are assisted living facilities allowed to be built in CAT 1, 2, 3, storm surge, vulnerable areas, you know, because evacuating people can kill. And you know, and so there's, there's got to be, we gotta think about how we build, you know, the hospital infrastructure of the future, but also why are we allowing certain types of facilities to be built where built, if they've, you know, if it could be, if evacuation could be dangerous to them.

George Siegal: 19:31

We have another island right next to Davis Islands called Harbor Island that has two bridges. But all their utilities are in the ground. But they were shutting the power off for this storm because they didn't want salt water to get in it. Don't you think of that when you put it in the ground on an island? On a bay? I mean, it just makes me wanna smack my head.

Brock Long: 19:48

It's like, yeah, well I can tell you this. The George, we, we talked about this before, you know, previously serving as FEMA administrator. I think I went through 220 events in two years. That's declared disasters in wildfires. I mean, literally a new event every three days if you think about it. And you know, people wanna place a lot of blame on fema. Why is this happening? Why is that happening? But FEMA's not in control of the destiny of many communities. They really aren't. I think some things have to change. I think the disaster laws that guide what FEMA can do such as the Stafford Act, have to be redesigned by Congress to provide incentives to communities for doing the right thing. You know, the whole entire disaster declaration process, in my opinion, is a moral hazard, George. And what I mean by that is, is that after a disaster, One of the things that emergency managers go look for is uninsured public infrastructure losses, uninsured public infrastructure losses. Those dollar amounts will help them to qualify for federal disaster declaration. There's no incentive to insure the infrastructure or build it correctly. So what if the law was rewritten to say those who pass higher building codes, residential codes, proper land use planning, and are properly insured, have greater access to Department of Education grants, Department of Commerce Grants, Department of Transportation grants, What if incentives? Were actually built into the law because right now they don't exist. And so as a former FEMA administrator to me, I'm glad we're having the conversation about resilience. But it's also a little bit laughable that we're having a conversation about resilience. But yet the whole entire disaster declaration process is a moral hazard that's got to be restructured to fit that art, you know, to fit that debate. Right.

George Siegal: 21:30

Well, why would somebody be against doing that? I know I'm asking preaching to the choir here, but why would you not wanna fix that?

Brock Long: 21:37

It may stifle development in your community, George. It may it may not allow you to You know, look at it, look at the grants that are provided for economic growth in communities, George you know, so what's the right balance of growth? How big do these communities need to be?, you know you know, the, the resilience discussion and debate. It's multifaceted and it's far greater than What's FEMA doing to prevent these things in the future? Honestly, I think FEMA's on a path where their business model is broken. You know, the, the business model is broken. Their mission has grown you know, incredibly, and they're not gonna be able to keep their head above water unless the laws and the incentives are changed.

George Siegal: 22:18

When you look back at your experience there, do you, is it a good memory or is it a nightmare?

Brock Long: 22:24

You know, that's a great question. You know, I'm still trying to get my head right. George after being FEMA administrator. I love the people inside that agency. They're dedicated people. They truly are golden hearted. But would I wanna go back and lead FEMA? I wouldn't . You know, I, I think. The deck is stacked against the agency and you know, they don't really have the emergency management community doesn't have a strong lobby. And anytime events like this occur, I can guarantee you that people are gonna say we need a bigger FEMA. But bigger FEMA's not the answer. George. We've tried bigger FEMA after Andrew in 92. We tried bigger FEMA after Katrina in 2005. We wanted a bigger FEMA after Sandy hit New York. We need a bigger FEMA George after Maria in Puerto Rico. Well, if we keep doing that and it's not really helping things, bigger FEMA is not the answer it. This is a partnership at all levels from a, the, the properly prepared and educated citizen about hazards and what they've gotta do to become more resilient all the way to the federal government finally, providing incentives to communities that are doing the right thing, right? You know, and, and for example, like the equity debate right now one of the things that I'd like Congress to allow FEMA to do is, is allow communities who are depressed, you know, depressed communities to apply for FEMA mitigation funds to help offset homeowners insurance in areas where people can't get ahead, you know, you know mitigation is not just about structural mitigation, it's also societal vulnerability mitigation. Right? And I don't believe that the federal government should pay for everybody's homeowner's insurance indefinitely, but there should be a graduating scale to at least start the process and the conversation, you know, coupled with financial resiliency coupled with low to no cost mitigation strategies to improve the, the, your, your dwellings performance when they face these types, but pointing the, you know, pointing the finger at who's responsible for this evacuation call? Who's responsible for this? You know, Puerto Rico, you know, FEMA, FEMA, FEMA. That ain't working. You're pointing the finger at the wrong direction cuz everybody inside FEMA knows what it takes to have a resilient future, but Congress isn't listening to the professionals.

George Siegal: 24:27

Yeah. So what would be the ultimate takeaway here for Tampa, St. Pete, Clearwater, you know, even as far south of Sarasota, which still got hit. What should people, what should they do right now to put themselves in a better position?

Brock Long: 24:42

Understand the vulnerabilities of where you live, of where you live. Okay? Understand the vulnerabilities of how hurricanes can attack your community in different, you know, different hurricanes can attack your community. Are you vulnerable to high winds, storm surge, inland flooding? What is it, you know, based on where you live? Be properly insured. Insurance is the first line of defense. A lot of people who moved down from the north to southwest Florida and just, you know, bought a house for cash and let their home insurance lapse so they could have a couple hundred extra bucks a month. You know, an operational account just lost their largest chunk of wealth in their home because it's gone. And the, you know, the Max Grant from FEMA's a little over 32,000 or $33,000 to help somebody that's lost their home and is uninsured. Insurance is the first line of defense. FEMA is not designed to make you whole. If you're asked to evacuate, heed the warning early. It's the storm surge that will kill you. Not necessarily the wind, even though the wind is what classifies these storms. Right? And you know, before you retire to different areas, understand the areas that you're retiring to understand the communities where you're planting your business. Understand the vulnerabilities and what can happen before you do it. And if you choose to live there, do it right. Build to a higher standard. Buy a home that's been mitigated.

George Siegal: 25:54

Yeah, I was talking to a, a neighbor the other day. They had a realtor and they were going to start looking at property a few weeks ago in Sanibel Island. There's a lot of people whose lives are, are going to be changed forever because of, of this most recent hurricane.

Brock Long: 26:08

Yep, absolutely. And you know, there's there's a lot of statistics. There was there was a research study done by the Urban Institute, and I think the title is called Adding Insult to Injury. If you Lose Your Home and You're Underinsured, There, there are studies that were done by the Urban Institute. I think that the title was adding Insult to Injury. If you're uninsured or underinsured, you're going to spiral outta control in a negative direction, financially for, probably the remainder of your life. And you know, and the, the other thing is, is that, you know, when it comes to insurance, don't just think about the property, you know, in the house. The contents within your house are also very important. I live in Hickory, North Carolina where furniture's manufactured and made, you know, handmade. The people around here will tell you that, you know, furniture in your home is the second most expensive expenditure in your life, George. But when we go to the contents of our insurance that's where we want to try to save money. And so it's not just, And, and when you lose your home and you're uninsured or underinsured, you still have to pay off that mortgage for a home that doesn't exist. You're still financially responsible for that contract you sign. And then you've gotta go also find a new place to live, whether you rent or whether you, you, you take a small business administration, low interest loan you know, and so, It's devastating. It's truly devastating and financially it's hard to recover if you experienced it.

George Siegal: 27:28

Now, another thing people I don't think, think about is the market was so inflated that even if you had a $500,000 home, it might now be worth a million dollars. It's not cuz your insurance is on that $500,000 home. So a lot of people are just, I, I see how that could completely alter somebody's life.

Brock Long: 27:46

And a lot of communities that have faced, you know, catastrophic hurricanes also, also go through a period of eroding tax base where you know, they, the economically, they do not recover for a long time because they're not able to generate the sales tax revenue, the tourism revenue, the the service industry is shot. And one of the hardest things about these communities when it comes to recovery is how do you get how do you get the service industry back to a community in an area where the average home price is over a million dollars? you know, it, it's affordable living is a, is a challenge in most communities across America, but along the coast it's even more challenging, particularly when all of it's been wiped out. And, you know, affordable housing is, is gonna be a huge challenge in the future too. But the eroding tax base piece is huge. Look at what Homestead Florida went through after Andrew. You know, it took them, you know, over a decade to start going in the positive direction.

George Siegal: 28:39

Just seeing these images, because we've, Sanibel Island was a place we went to a lot, down to Naples, other places in southwest Florida. It's gonna take him, it's, it . Seems like a forever just to clean up the mess, let alone start to rebuild.

Brock Long: 28:52

So after a disaster strikes us a couple things. One, you know, Southwest Florida is still focused on the search and rescue mission, right? Then they're gonna be focused on the life sustainment mission. How do you service people where they are? Then they're gonna be focused on, you know, long-term or, or, you know, long-term sheltering and how that transitions to interim housing or long term housing. Right? And You know, before you can really do anything, this is going to be several billion worth of debris that's got to be removed and disposed of, or recycled, whatever it may be. Then you've gotta get the power infrastructure back up and running without the power. Nothing works. You've gotta rebuild, you know, when you have big storm surge and it's like the one that you've seen, the water and sewer infrastructure's totally shot, you know, so you gotta go back in. You gotta rebuild roads, you gotta rebuild those infrastructure. Meanwhile you know, the recovery housing effort is still going on. People have to decide. Can I remain here and support my livelihood in my family, or do I need to move and go to another location and start over? And you know, so it's a race. How, how do you service people where they are? Try to keep them in a safe, sanitary, functional situation within their house by simple repairs to, are their hotels close by or you know, everybody wants a, a FEMA mobile home unit or travel trailer. Well, these are not coming down the pipe until months from now. Yeah. They just don't exist. They have to be built, they have to be transported. So the recovery is gonna go on well over a decade and you're not gonna be able to put the community back to the same standard, nor should we. We're striving for a new normal at this point and a new vision, George, so that we don't go through this again.

George Siegal: 30:29

We have talked to experts here and they say this is the cost of living in paradise. I think it's pretty high price to pay when you see this.

Brock Long: 30:36

Yeah, but you know, disasters are in the eye of the hole or the word you know, I, I caution using the word catastrophe or catastrophic. You know, if you lost your home from a house fire and you were uninsured, it's catastrophic to you, right? Mm-hmm. You know, and so it can happen anywhere. You can't take, you know, where you live for granted. I mean, I've actually seen houses in my own community flood because of a basketball in a drain pipe. Wow. You know, And so it's you know, so, so you can't take it for granted. You can't take your safety for granted. You gotta, but you gotta prepare. You gotta prepare.

George Siegal: 31:09

Brock, thank you so much for your time. I, I, I appreciate your insights and you know, I'll, I'll be bugging you again because hopefully we're doing some more with The Last House Standing, and I would love to have your expertise.

Brock Long: 31:20

Fantastic. George, thank you so much.

George Siegal: 31:22

Thank you so much for joining me on today's Tell Us How to Make It Better podcast. If you have any questions or thoughts about what you were listening to things you might wanna see differently, there's a contact form where you can reach me in the show notes. And if you enjoyed what you were listening to, please become a subscriber and share the link to the podcast with your friends as well. Thanks again for listening. See you next time.